Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Jacques's avatar

A few points:

1) There's no need to quibble about the poverty line, which is fundamentally arbitrary. The neolib “line go up, world get gooder” applies to tangibles, line literacy rates, child mortality, life expectancy, etc. The material condition of the human species has massively improved since the industrial revolution and it's borderline insane to deny this.

2) A relative decline in poverty, even if not absolute is still Very Good regardless of whether one is a total or average utilitarian and reflects well on the economic order under which it occurs.

3) Arguing about whether capitalism began with colonialism, the industrial revolution, or something in between seems like a word game. People aren't posting the line go up graphs and saying “See? This is why we should do the Scramble for Africa 2.0.” People are advocating for the market economy as it has existed ~since the end of WW2.

4) Comparing wealth inequality to pre-captialist eras is extremely fraught because making 1:1 comparisons of asset values potentially flattens a lot of historical economic and social distinctions.

5) Yes, China and other developing countries that succeeded had industrial policies, tariffs, etc. But (a) a Marxist would still call these systems “capitalist” and (b) that's not necessarily *why* they succeeded. In pairwise comparisons of like counties, the more laissez-faire ones generally do better (South vs North Korea, Botswana vs Zimbabwe, West vs East Germany, etc. You can accuse me of cherry-picking, but I honestly am not aware of any plausible pairwise comparison where the results are the opposite)

***

I say this as a liberal and a supporter of the market economy, but I'm not really trying to “dunk” on any socialist alternative. I think people who use “line go up” as a slam-dunk argument against any socialist alternative are being intellectually lazy. But it's annoying when socialists pretend, for ideological reasons, that the massive improvement in material conditions over the past century and a half has nothing to do with markets or just isn't real. There are plausible socialist alternatives to capitalism, and plausible arguments for their desirability, that aren't cancelled out by the above facts.

Expand full comment
John Bolt's avatar

The author has clearly never been to China.

I would also point out that Capitalism has lifted hundreds of millions of Europeans (and people living in former European colonies) out of poverty. It did so for about 100 million Japanese people and about 50 million Koreans, too. How many hundreds of millions living outside of poverty in a global capitalist economy would you have to see before you believed the claim, “Capitalism has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty”?

This piece commands of its readers, “don’t believe your lying eyes.”

Expand full comment
97 more comments...

No posts