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Victoria's avatar

I absolutely agree. An 'agree to disagree' stance is nearly as bad as 'both sides are valid' stances where there's clearly a bad faith actor. It leads to non-political folk feeling that every politician is as corrupt as each other and they're all out to mislead us.

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Rebecca Sinclair's avatar

Thanks for this Ryan. I get so frustrated with the just-look-on-the-surface approach to political discourse that does not explore what gives rise to the policy preferences, nor the way they operate systemically. The worldview that sits underneath (and its moral orientation) is exactly what we need to understand, as its logic is what will give rise to different kinds of policies. It is in effect the paradigm that drives the system -the logic on which it is based. And that logic includes so many moral judgements about who deserves what (ladders of hierarchy and worth), and how the world works, and how power works, and how people work, and who should be included in our circle of concern. To ignore the worldview and believe we just have a collection of options to choose from is to be blind to systems (a big factor in the metacrisis we are in).

What I increasingly feel is the separation between those who are more inclined to wards an ecological view of the world (holistic, systemic, interdependent, living, relational), and those who treat it as a machine to be controlled and dominated (discrete independent components, highly manipulable, top-down force, standardised, instrumental, rigid…). Maybe those are the new left and right tendencies?

I would so love to see more public discussion of the worldview and logic and values that sit underneath the surface level politics - making that visible so we can be more discerning about what we are choosing between and how that equates with the reality of a complex changing world.

At the moment our collective understanding feels obfuscated by descriptions of the outcomes and behaviours those paradigms produce. This and this and this and this. Lots of disconnected things. Where are the patterns? Where are the discussions of nth order effects?

I agree about not demonising people for their political views, but that can coexist with understanding the moral and historical foundations of those views (even when those who espouse them may not), and the systemic outcomes of certain ways of looking at the world. And let’s definitely be clear about identifying harm when we see it.

When we believe we can dissect and discuss politics in the abstract realm of ideas (coolly and calmly), that takes it out of its embodied and lived context, and that is when it becomes easy to manipulate and exploit. We can even delude ourselves when we’re talking abstractly, and we are nicely distanced from the people over whom our ideas and decisions have real material consequences. The map is not the territory. Gregory Bateson talked about how easy it is to manipulate things when we take them out of their context—and this is the path to fascism. Thank you for re-embedding these positions back in their contexts. We need to understand the ecology of politics, not be presented with a set of branded options on the supermarket shelves.

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